I haven’t recently averaged 20 mph when moving but I have in the past on multiple occasions. For example, I once covered 10 miles in 25 minutes (24 mph average). On the parts of my rides where I don’t need to stop I’ll sometimes average 20 mph even if the overall average for the entire ride is far less. Yes, I’ll slow on the uphill portions but might get well in excess of 20 mph, even 30 mph, on the downhills.

Actually I’m using Shimano but I haven’t had any issues cross chaining. I’m usually not doing it for very long. Typically I cruise at 18 to 22 mph. For that my second or third highest cogs are fine.

The cadence sensor on my bike computer broke a while back. I’m just giving the numbers based on my wheel circumference of 2060 mm.

That’s fine so long as you make the threshold equivalent to what a strong human cyclist can do. My personal preference would be 25 mph. This also happens to be the legal speed limit on most NYC streets. That said, I’d settle for the federal standard of 20 mph if that’s what it takes to legalize them as regular bikes. Maybe we should have classes for >20 mph e-bikes similar to those for pure scooters but with lesser standards (i.e. no licensing or insurance but mandatory registration). My reasoning is e-bikes typically handle just like regular bikes given their mass. If you can ride a bike then you can ride an e-bike, even one capable of, say, 30 mph. Scooters are typically heavier. They also handle differently.

Not too hard to do that on a greenway. But not on city streets.

I used a calculator. 80rpm is equal to 28mph on a 700/25 wheel and 50-11.

I’d just spin way too fast to use my small chaining. I have a compact 50/34 and my comfortable cadence range is 75-95.

Sounds about right. With my wheel size I’m getting 28 mph also in a 50-11 gear @ 80 RPM.

I had a compact chain ring on one of my bikes. I switched it once it wore out for a 52-42. Didn’t need the super low gear. For me 42-26 is fine on the worst hills I encounter.

Yes, a scooter is heavier than an ebike. But I am not comparing ebike to scooters, which are regulated by DMV as motorcycles based on engine size. I’m comparing them to mopeds, which are separated into classes by speed capability – the same way ebikes should be. They are electric mopeds and should be treated the same. That simple. They are not motorcycles. They are not cars. Nor are they just bicycles. They are mopeds.

But why are we comparing it to ultimate human capabilities. An ebike can take an out of shape, overweight, underperforming person and put them in the same speed ability as a professional cyclist. Classification should not be based on superman, but on what a typical person would do. To keep it in the class of bicycle, it should perform at speeds typical to bicycles, not the maximum thresholds.

Why not 30 mph max if the vehicle mass is similar to a bicycle, say 50 pounds or less? I’ve heard some cyclists complain about e-bikes in bike lanes. So maybe ban them from bike lanes but allow them unlicensed operation at a maximum speed which is adequate to ride in a traffic lane in most of NYC. 30 mph would cover that. 15 mph essentially restricts them to bike lanes.

The reason we should compare it to ultimate human capabilities is the same reason we have to account for those capabilities even if we’re just talking human-powered bikes. In the Netherlands for example most of their bike infrastructure is designed for 40 km/hr (25 mph) or more. This is obviously beyond what most of their cyclists do but it needs to be factored in if you don’t want some cyclists riding on roads instead of bike lanes. Same them here. If the legal framework says strong cyclists capable of going 25 mph, even 30+ mph in bursts, don’t need a license/registration/insurance then neither should e-bikes with the same capability.

What worries me here is possible precedents. If we start by saying a 20 mph e-bike needs some kind of license, then what happens next? Do we require a license for road bikes and especially velomobiles? In general when society requires a license to do something, it’s because that something can be hazardous without special training. The more the hazard potential, the stricter the licensing. The converse is true. We don’t require walking licenses because a pedestrian mostly has the potential to harm only themselves. Same thing for cyclists of all abilities given their mass and speed.

Let’s just look at pedestrian collision data here if you need more convincing. There is a very small chance of dying if you’re hit by a motor vehicle going 20 mph, which is e-bike speed. Note this is despite the much greater mass of a motor vehicle. Pedestrians and bikes are similar in mass. Therefore, each suffers about half the momentum change in a bike-ped collision (compared to nearly all of it in a ped-motor vehicle collision). A bike would need to be going 40 mph to impart the same momentum change to a pedestrian as being hit by a car at 20 mph. For a heavier e-bike, the numbers might be lower, perhaps 30 mph. The main point though is an legal e-bike has a very small potential to harm. Even if their top speed was 30 mph instead of 20 mph that would be true. The data backs all this up. Has any pedestrian ever been killed by either a bike or e-bike due to blunt force trauma? I think the answer is no. Those who have been killed simply were knocked over and hit their heads when falling. The fall caused their deaths, but a bike hitting them at 10 mph could just as easily have caused such a fall. Based on all this, I’m just not seeing any compelling reason to treat e-bikes differently than regular bikes. What needs to be done is aggressive enforcement of high-speed salmoning or sidewalk riding. That obviously has potential to cause injury. It’s also a nuisance.

The most vulnerable, who also conveniently (for him) can’t vote.

I’m not sure registration and licensing would accomplish much in the area of safety. They certainly haven’t with automobiles. All licensing e-bikes would accomplish is having lots of riders on the street without licensing, and the NYPD pretty much unable to enforce such licensing.

I personally see e-bikes as having the potential to make things safer if they equalize the speeds between strong and average riders. A lot of the safety issues in bike lanes now are due to cyclists passing each other. While pedestrian safety can’t be ignored, I tend to think injuries are caused more by unsafe operation than by the choice of vehicle. Also worth a mention is pedestrians tend to intrude into bike lanes (and get injured) when they think bikes are traveling at very low speeds. I’ve noted this myself where people have a much higher tendency to jaywalk in front of me if I’m going slower. If ~20 mph was normalized by the prevalence of e-bikes, such intrusions would be far less common.

E-bikes are semi relevant to this thread because the 72nd Precinct has decided enforcing e-bike laws is more important than speeding or other motorist moving violations. Perhaps if safety is the goal then just ticket unsafe operation, whether done in a motor vehicle or on an e-bike.

‘Can you imagine the outcry if the cops protected people who kill with *bikes* to this extent’?

We Need @NYCCouncil Oversight And NYPD Reform To Stop Victim Blaming & Ticketing Cyclists When Reckless Drivers Kill https://campaigns.transalt.org/petition/stop-ticketing-cyclists-when-reckless-drivers-kill

He owned this completely once he caved to the city council and actually hired even more new cops than they demanded in the first place. If he couldn’t fight them when he took office he did absolutely nothing to try to contain the threat to his mayoralty.

I’ll choose option 3: Not get hit.

I appreciate that an e-bike might only put me on the hospital for a week rather than kill me. But I don’t think I should have to choose between a hospital stay or death when I walk down the street.

But, to coin a phrase, my safety is more important than your efficiency.

Comment on story : Same old story. More laws & more state. I feel story the guy was
hit, but he ran a red light. He is to blame for his own death. Don’t use
it as an excuse to push an agenda, aside from people taking
responsibility for their own actions & learning.

Would you rather be shot or punched in the face?
I dunno. How about neither?

“The answer is to legalize and regulate.”
Yup. Just legalize ones under a certain speed and weight. Call ’em “bikes” and treat them like bikes.
Ones OVER a certain speed and weight can be treated like motor scooters.
While we’re at it we should also improve laws for scooters and motorcycles.