I think you forgot to flip to page 2 of the press release where a DOT official adds, “Oh, by the way, stick it,
Marty.”

I’d be interested to hear what went on behind the scenes in order for Marty to accept this, or if he was simply overruled.

This is great news in the fight for car-free parks. Benepe and Sadik-Kahn should be thanked for this development.

What we will be looking for is enforcement. As it stands now, too many cars drive around barriers to continue around the park, even when the park is supposed to be closed to traffic. Since half of the park will essentially be open to traffic at certain times, it will be very easy for cars to ignore posted signs and flimsy traffic barriers that barely cover a lane.

But it’s a great step, nonetheless.

A definite cause for celebration for Brookyln. I hope our encouragement here on Streetsblog helped make this happen. Marty’s not going anywhere in his Mayoral bid. At best he’ll siphon votes from Weiner…

way to go!

Right on, Sadik-Kahn!

Now to get rid of the packs of bike racers in the park, those who have been overwhelming the stroller/jogger/recreational bike/commuter bike crowd.
Too dangerous.

Prospect Park needs a state-of-the-art running trail.

One idea circulating is to reduce the auto lanes from two to one, and expanding the bike/ped space from 1/2 lane each to two full lanes. When this happens, perhaps we might take the leftmost half-lane, break up the asphalt, and install some sort of clay(?) running path. The thousands of joggers in Prospect Park deserve better than the rocky, root-strewn, ad-hoc path we have today. Considering how many runners use the park, one could make the case that the park is creating a public health hazard by not providing a decent jogging path.

perhaps prospect park can use a velodrome like the one in kissena park

very cool!

Think the idea of reducing car lanes to one lane is a great one. I ride in the park almost every morning, and the cars in the left lane get sooo close sometimes.

There really isn’t enough room for both joggers, walkers, rollerbladers and bikes in two small lanes.

Most of the aggresive Spandex Bikers leave at 7.

Feels good, but is ultimately a bad idea. Cuts off one part of the borough from another. Tons more cars will be on the sides of the park (especially the poem that is PPW to the Coney Island Ave traffic circle). If accidents involving pedestrians spike between 5-7 in the next few months (and they will) will it have been worth it?

It’s Sadik-Khan, not Kahn.

Jones —

“Tons more cars will be on the sides of the park”

“Tons”???

I have viewed the traffic on PPW during the evening rush many, many times. What’s so incredibly infuriating about traffic through the park is that it’s completely unnecessary because PPW can easily carry the traffic load. I’m less familiar with Flatbush, but doubt that the situation is very much different.

The volume of cars driving through Prospect Park isn’t actually that great, but of course the impact on the experience of being in the park, or of exercising on the Park Drives is tremendous.

“Cut off”???

Get on the Q train, you fool.

Bob,

I’m pretty certain you’re going to find that there are still quite a few streets leading in and out of Prospect Lefferts Garden during the two additional hours per day that the East Drive is now closed to cars.

Bob,

Yes, of course one can retreat farther into the park to avoid the unpleasantness of automobile traffic. Of course, this is why park usage declines during automobile hours. Most people who use Prospect Park are not looking for a deep woods adventure. Allowing cars on the Park Drives effectively SHRINKS the Park. You have to walk that much farther to escape the city. During car-free hours, peace and quiet envelope you within just a coupple of minutes of entering the park. During car hours, you are instead sandwiched between two streets with traffic and much go much farther to get away from street noise.

Bob, if you feel that closing the East Drive during the evening rush cuts you off from the rest of Brooklyn, how were you managing before? I mean, the East Drive was usually closed, even before this additional closure. Do you spend your weekends and weekday hours completely confined to PLG? Was Monday through Friday, 7-9 and 5-7 the only time you ever went anywhere? Weird…

Closing East Drive to evening rush hour traffic has created nightmare levels of traffic congestion in the neighborhood to the east of the park.

In a couple of months the number of bikers and joggers using East Drive will plummet. But traffic from the closure will continue… making the air dirtier, increasing CO2 emissions, increasing asthma rates, increasing ambulance response times and generally decreasing quality of life.

i agree with smith….its imperative that we come up with better ways to get around brooklyn without a car…it will take time, and it will require lots of peoplt to change habits…but in the long run it will result in a more livable city for everyone

I strongly suspect that the closure has made a very bad situation even worse. Smith, et al. suspect otherwise.

But suppose,that I’m right and that clear and convincing evidence is presented that the closure had a negative impact. Would you agree that Drive should be reopened on a limited basis?

Andrew,

The only way I’d agree to re-opening the East Drive to cars for a period of time would be if, simultaneously, plans were put in place to reduce traffic congestion and car trips on the streets around the park.

If the city said something like, look, we’re converting Flatbush Avenue to bus rapid transit, we’re taking over the dollar vans and professionalizing them, we’re adding lots of new bus service and reducing fares, we’re building out extensive bike infrastructure for local trips, we’re turning some key streets in the area into pedestrian and bus-only streets, we’re doing market-rate on-street parking on the shopping streets and residential parking permits in the neighborhoods, we’re not allowing any more big parking garages to be built in the vicinity, we’re ratcheting up subway service and we’re tolling the Manhattan Bridge to push some Flatbush Ave traffic into the Battery Tunnel — and we just need to let cars use the park for a year while we get some of this stuff into place. I could be swayed something like that.

But if it’s just: Traffic’s bad on the east side of the park, let’s shove some of that traffic into the park to try to make it better — I don’t see how that really solves the problem. Traffic congestion is just going to fill whatever road capacity you give it.

Andrew,

They “know” it reduces traffic congestion in their hearts, but that does not mean that they know it because of facts (largely because the evidence is contrary to this). Experience has shown that removing capacity does not significantly increase congestion in that area.

More importantly, removing capacity decreases the total vehicle miles travelled. This is due to the inverse of induced demand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Reduced_demand_.28the_inverse_effect.29)
Many of those cars will not simply travel through the same area. Some will find a different path, some will change the time of the day they drive, some will not take the trip and some will switch to mass transit.

The total vehicles travelling through the area will actually decrease resulting in better air quality for the surrounding neighborhoods.

So, Andrew, you’re saying that allowing traffic to run through Prospect Park will help stop global warming and prevent Brooklyn kids from getting asthma?

I suppose if we turned Prospect Park into a giant parking lot that would solve Park Slope’s parking shortage too.

I agree with you that the southeastern side of the park has a horrible traffic problem. I just think that we need to talk about real solutions to that problem. All of the real solutions involve helping Brooklynites get around more easily by a mode of transport other than personal automobile. All of the real solutions involve less driving and fewer cars on our streets during peak hours. That means your car and mine are part of the problem, not part of the solution. And allowing cars in the park isn’t a real solution.