Q&A: Will Carl Heastie Lead on Congestion Pricing? Don’t Count on It.

Streetsblog spoke with Heastie on Wednesday in his Albany office.

Carl Heastie and his Democratic conference. Photo: Amirabbady00/Wikimedia Commons
Carl Heastie and his Democratic conference. Photo: Amirabbady00/Wikimedia Commons

Don’t count on Assembly Speaker Carl Heastie to strong-arm his caucus to pass congestion pricing program.

In a 10-minute sit-down with Streetsblog on Wednesday, the Bronx rep reiterated his longtime support for some sort of pricing program, as well as his desire to begin to fund the MTA’s $40-billion capital plan. But he also indicated a willingness to look elsewhere for funding, such as from President Trump and the federal government. And he declined to criticize assembly members who are reluctant to sign onto congestion pricing, putting the onus on the MTA to show that the money will be well-spent.

Below is a transcript of the conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity.

You’ve supported congestion pricing for a long time. Ten years ago you were part of a very small minority who supported Mayor Bloomberg’s plan. What’s changed since? What are your members thinking about differently than the caucus was 10 years ago?

The first time you hear an idea, sometimes it’s not always well-received. Ten years can pass. Some people can start to see we don’t have a lot of options. I think some people can also start to get a further understanding. And then also, it’s a different group of members. The members who were elected today aren’t the same. There’s been a tremendous turnover since 2009. Some of newer members that have come in have been more open to congestion pricing.

Many assembly members say they need to know what the money’s going to go to. That they need to know the money is going to be properly spent. What does the governor need to do to convince your members to get on board with congestion pricing?

I think for … the people that represent transit deserts, the people who have the districts where you have to take two buses to get to a train, I think there has to be an answer for them — because if they feel that, for their constituents who … either they drive into Lower Manhattan or they take two buses to the train, you’re now going to raise the cost of them driving in Manhattan. [If] you want to steer people towards public transportation, then you have to give them a better option than two trains to a bus. So I think that’s what has to be addressed. You have to give people — if you’re trying to steer people to public transportation — options. And I think that will take trying to come up with, particularly in the outer-boroughs, more opportunities for people to have access to public transportation.

Does that mean you need the MTA to itemize what the money’s going fund before you pass this year’s budget?

Well, congestion pricing is really to fund the capital plan, but there still should be some, you know … for our suburban members and our outer-borough members, there should be funds set up to deal with their transportation issues. Whether that can cover people who would have to pay two tolls — you know double-tolling or extra tolling — access, maybe the MTA has to set up more commuter bus lines. Things like that. There has to be a firm commitment for funds to address those things, I think, for the members to be okay with it.

[Fact check: There’s no doubt Heastie is hearing this from assembly members, but it’s just not true. Even in districts where transit riders have to take a bus or two to the train, very few if any people are choosing between that and driving to the Central Business District, according to census data analyzed by Tri-State Transportation Campaign. There’s not a single train staton in Assembly Member Nily Rozic’s Eastern Queens, for example, but only 4.8 percent of her constituents commute regularly by car into or through the Central Business District [PDF]. Far more take transit. Even fewer people drive into the CBD in Alicia Hyndman’s adjacent district: just three percent [PDF]. In both district, car commuters tend have higher average incomes than their transit-using neighbors.]

How much money are you trying to raise? Isn’t congestion pricing the only thing that gets you there?

Well, it depends. The MTA is saying they need upwards of $40 billion. Congestion pricing doesn’t get you over that. It maybe gets you somewhere around halfway there. We also need to rely on the federal government. The Democrats are the majority. Even though the Senate Democrats are in the minority, you still can’t do a budget without Senate Democratic participation. And one thing that President Trump has talked about is, you know, investing in infrastructure. And I think any investment in infrastructure could help with a massive investment in the MTA.

Congestion pricing is one of the options. You know, there’s other options, but which are palatable to whom? We supported the pied-à-terre tax. We didn’t earmark it for anything, but I’m sure some of it can go to help the MTA.

Even if you did congestion pricing, it probably only gets you halfway there, and then you have to start to pile on whatever other opportunities we can have to come up with a sustainable source of revenue.

[What he’s saying: The assembly’s proposed one-house budget, printed on Monday night, completely punted on the question of both MTA funding and MTA oversight. In contrast, the senate’s budget endorsed congestion pricing and floated legislation called the MTA RAIL Act, which included provisions related to MTA accountability and oversight.

Heastie’s reference to palatability, meanwhile, hints at the governor’s stubborn opposition to most tax increases, save for the pied-à-terre tax, which the assembly did include in its budget, as the speaker noted.]

If you don’t get congestion pricing, and you get some set of fees or taxes that get you halfway [to $15 billion], have you failed?

Coming up with the bonding capacity for $40 billion — that’s not like it’s an easy thing. You can’t just blink and hope it’s there. It’s like building a building. You have to do maybe floor by floor. So if the first leg is congestion pricing or some other revenue source that brings it up. … I think you just have to try and build on these things. Congestion pricing, if people end up not wanting to do it, that was a big chunk of getting us there.

[Assembly members who spoke to Streetsblog this week insisted that they’re working towards some sort of funding resolution, and by all accounts, the momentum is there for congestion pricing. Otherwise, the only alternative Heastie has mentioned is a gas tax hike, which hits the exact same people as congestion pricing: drivers. And it raises a lot less than money than congestion pricing, which would yield around $1 billion annually that could be bonded to about $15 billion. To match that, the gas tax would have to be raised a whopping $.50-cents per gallon, according to transportation tax whiz Charlie Komanoff.]

What are you telling your members who are on the fence or still reluctant?

That I think it’s very important for us to pass a budget that gives the MTA a sustainable [funding] resource. I think it’s very important for us to get that done, to get some certainty to the MTA and to our constituents that we have to come up with resources for the capital plan.

We all know that the transit system is like the artery system behind the body. If there’s no transit system, the body can’t survive. And I think the members for sure know that. I think the members absolutely know that, and I’m just hoping we’ll get to the point where they’ll be comfortable enough because you don’t want to put members in a position to say, alright, “I took this vote, [but] we still have no access to public transportation and, oh, by the way it’s going to cost you more money to drive into the city.” When members represent those types of areas, you don’t want to put them in that position to have to go back home and tell their constituents that.

[This week, the Permanent Citizens Budget Committee to the MTA released an interactive tool that details each of the potential revenue sources, and guess what? All of them pale in comparison to the amount of money congestion pricing would raise. It’s telling that Heastie won’t just come out and say: “Look, congestion pricing is the best bet. It’s the most politically viable and will raise the most money.”]

  • Larry Littlefield

    “Coming up with the bonding capacity for $40 billion — that’s not like it’s an easy thing.”

    What the plan to fund the MTA Capital plan after those bonds are used up?

    They want scorched earth. If there is anything left after they are gone, they will have failed. And no one will call them out on it.

    “We all know that the transit system is like the artery system behind the body. If there’s no transit system, the body can’t survive. And I think the members for sure know that.”

    Can someone put a year on the time when they want the city and region and state to be destroyed, for the benefit of anyone considering moving here, opening a business here, or buying property here?

  • Josef Szende

    Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee – not Budget

  • carl jacobs

    Dear NYC

    No, we aren’t interested in funding your transit capital needs just so you don’t have to confront your labor unions over those bloated contracts that you signed. Cut your labor costs first.

    The Rest of the Country

    PS. If you really want to hang the transportation future of NYC on public transportation, then you best remember to make it illegal for transit workers to strike.

  • Larry Littlefield

    But we do demand that NYC fund OUR transportation needs because those are of national importance. And all our other needs, because we are of importance


    The Rest of the Country (and State)

    By the way, the problem isn’t our “labor costs,” if by that you mean those working right now. It’s Generation Greed’s unfunded senior costs and debts. That’s EVERYONE’s problem, since that generation demands everything and refuses to pay for it.

  • bklyn631

    We fund the rest of the country through our individual and corporate federal income taxes, moocher. The rest of the country can fund their own stuff,we want OUR money back! Alabama can build their own highways if they want them!

  • bklyn631

    Conservatives are quite socialist when it comes to redistributing OUR money to other parts of the country. Its time we demand the federal government matches in spending what they take from us in federal income taxes otherwise honestly, as crazy as it sounds, we should secede and keep our money here. Let midwest farmers find someone else to bail them out from the president’s dumb tarriffs!